TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. When Danielle Brooks started appearing in the Netflix series "Orange Is The New Black" as the character Taystee, she was astonished to find she was recognized wherever she went. "Orange" was about women in prison, and Brooks played one of those women. When the series premiered in 2013, Brooks was a recent graduate of Juilliard, and Netflix was relatively new to producing original content.
Two years later, while still filming "Orange," she learned she'd gotten a role in the Broadway revival of "The Color Purple" as Sofia, the character that Oprah Winfrey played in the 1985 film. Rather than giving up one of those roles, she continued to shoot "Orange" while also performing on Broadway.
GROSS: "The Color Purple" had special significance for Danielle Brooks. The original production of the musical was the first Broadway show she'd ever seen. It convinced her she wanted to act and that there might be a place for a Black woman like her. She was nominated for a Tony for her performance in the revival and was nominated for an Oscar when she played Sofia again in the 2023 movie adaptation of the Broadway musical.
While preparing for this interview, I learned she played the beloved gospel singer Mahalia Jackson in a 2021 biopic for the Lifetime channel that's now streaming on several platforms. She gets to do a lot of singing in that, and as you'll hear later, it really shows off how emotionally and physically powerful her voice is. Brooks started singing and acting in church. Her mother is a minister. Her father is a recently retired deacon. Brooks was also recently in "A Minecraft Movie" and in the series "Peacemaker."
Now she's in a new indie film called "If I Go Will They Miss Me." It's about how one family's life is changed when the husband and father is released from prison and returns home, emotionally distant from his wife and two children. Brooks plays the wife and mother who has a steady job and is holding the family together, with no help from her husband. Brooks and Jon Batiste are two of the executive producers. The credit music is Jon Batiste singing "This Bitter Earth."
Danielle Brooks, welcome to FRESH AIR. It's such a pleasure to be able to talk with you.
DANIELLE BROOKS: Oh, Terry, it is so lovely to speak with you too. Thank you for having me.
GROSS: My pleasure. So, you know, in "Orange Is The New Black," you play a prisoner.
BROOKS: Yes.
GROSS: And now in this new movie, you're playing the wife of somebody who's been in and out of prison.
BROOKS: Yeah.
GROSS: And I'm - oh, and in "Clemency," the father of your child is on death row. So this is, like, the third that I'm aware of - the third movie related to prison that you've been in. And I wonder if you see that as related to mass incarceration - like, a reflection of mass incarceration.
BROOKS: When you put it like that, I'm like, man, I need to do - play a - I don't know - a royal queen or something.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROOKS: Like, 'cause it's...
GROSS: Well, you come close in "Mahalia."
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: Yay. I love that. Yeah. For sure. I mean, yeah. This is the world we live in, you know? And for me, I'm always searching, reaching for honesty and truthfulness in what is in this world. You know, I feel like I've been able to do a lot in my career. But yet we do find ourselves back in places like this - you know, when you mentioned, like, playing a woman that's incarcerated. When it comes to "Orange Is The New Black" and playing Taystee, this inmate, there was just so much complexity to who she was, you know? And to be honest, Terry, I didn't want to play Taystee in the beginning.
GROSS: Why not?
BROOKS: You know, because she was an inmate and because I was nervous coming out of Juilliard, 21 years old, like, oh my gosh. I'm about to play an inmate. And what is that, you know, saying about Black women? You know, what viewpoint am I putting out about Black women? But then I remember my audition and the casting director saying, you know, I know what's on the page, but she's very lighthearted. She has a lot of heart to who she is, joy to who she is. And I was so excited because I was like, that's the direction I was already planning on going with her. And you see me singing, you know, in the shower, you know, in the beginning. That's the first scene, is me singing...
(Singing) Tell me something good.
And it's just - that's what drew me to her. There was more to her. She was a young woman who actually did not commit the crime. She was in foster care. You know, she started a riot, you know? There was just a lot to the person, you know. And I find that to be true with "Clemency" and in "If I Go Will They Miss Me" especially.
GROSS: So Jon Batiste is one of the executive producers of the film. And he sings the credit music, "This Bitter Earth," which Dinah Washington had a popular recording of. And I'm wondering - I know he went to Juilliard. Did you...
BROOKS: Yes.
GROSS: ...Know each other in Juilliard?
BROOKS: We did (laughter).
GROSS: And you've recorded together, also.
BROOKS: Yes. We did. Jon Batiste and I were at Juilliard at the same time, and we also graduated the same year. I remember watching him in the halls. And he was a hoot. I mean, this man would be running around with that small miniature piano that he plays in his hand, blowing it, you know, as, like, if he was on a line in New Orleans, you know, with his friends behind him, jamming in the cafeteria. And I was like, who the heck is this man? You know? He was just so - such an, like, artiste. You know what I mean?
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROOKS: Like, artsy-fartsy kid from New Orleans.
GROSS: Did you introduce yourself to him?
BROOKS: I think we just knew each other 'cause we were Black kids at Juilliard. It's not, but so many of us. You know what I mean? And so I actually remember we would do these, like, crossovers. So it's where, like, the drama division would hang out with the musicians. So he was in the jazz department, and we would jam. And I remember, like, Jon would play something, and they asked one of the actors to sing with him. And I remember that was the thing. So it was like a call-and-repeat-type thing where he would play, like, a doodle - doo-do-doo, doo-doo. And I would repeat it with my voice, you know? So I just feel like we bonded from that.
And then, you know, we had, like, the Martin Luther King days where all the Black people would get together - and others too - and put on a show in reverence of MLK. Like, so we just found each other. You know what I mean? We built that community. And then from there on, like, I did a EP of my own music called "FOUR." And I asked Jon once we graduated if he would be on that, and he did. And then he asked me to do a Christmas song with him for Spotify, and I did. And then we did "Color Purple" together. You know? Like, there was just so - it's just so many, like, full-circle, beautiful moments that we've been able to share.
GROSS: So I want to talk about your singing. I want to play "Hell No! " from...
BROOKS: Ooh. OK (laughter).
GROSS: ...The movie version of "The Color Purple." But first, what was your audition for the Broadway revival when you first got to play Sofia?
BROOKS: Oh my gosh, Terry. So, I mean, it's layered - OK? - because I had seen "The Color Purple" on Broadway at 15. My dad had taken me. And, you know, I'd go to Juilliard.
GROSS: That was a big deal...
BROOKS: Oh.
GROSS: ...'Cause you were from Greensville, South Carolina.
BROOKS: Oh, yes.
GROSS: And so...
BROOKS: It was huge.
GROSS: You were doing an internship in New York.
BROOKS: Yes.
GROSS: And you got to see "The Color Purple."
BROOKS: Yes. My dad...
GROSS: Your first Broadway show.
BROOKS: ...Yes - took me to the Broadway show "Color Purple" 'cause, to be honest, at the time - and that's a whole nother conversation - but there - that was the only Black show outside - or considered the only Black show outside - of "The Lion King," which is actually about animals played...
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROOKS: ...By Black actors, that was on Broadway at the time. And so yeah. My dad took me. I was in awe. My jaw was on the floor, tears falling down my face. And I was like, this is what I want to do. Yeah.
GROSS: So what was your audition song?
BROOKS: "Hell No!" (Laughter).
GROSS: Oh, wow. That's...
BROOKS: I auditioned with "Hell No!"
GROSS: That's a biggie. OK.
BROOKS: And I remember, like, they had this...
GROSS: Was that your choice or their choice?
BROOKS: No, that's their choice. They want to make sure that that's what we were singing. Yeah. For sure. But I remember, like, they had a table with the director and producers. And I went straight up to that table, and I tapped that table, and I was like...
(Singing) All my life I've had to fight.
And I just remember them being like, whoa.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROOKS: And I could feel them being like, yeah. This is our Sofia - because, of course, Sofia would have enough kahunas to come up to the table and get right in our face, you know?
GROSS: Oh, that's great.
BROOKS: So...
GROSS: So let's hear the real thing. So this is Sofia basically saying to Celie, if a man raises his hand to you, hell no. Fight back. Don't take it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HELL NO!")
BROOKS: (As Sofia, singing) All my life, I've had to fight. I had to fight my daddy, had to fight my brothers, my cousins, my uncles too. But I never, never, never, never, never, never thought I'd have to fight in my own house. I feel sorry for you, to tell you the truth. You remind me of my momma, under your husband's thumb. No, you under your husband's foot. What he say goes.
Oh, man. I love that.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: You sound so good in that. One of the hardest things in a musical, I think, is to get from the dialogue into the song. And I'm wondering what that was like for you - like, what - how you try to make that transition.
BROOKS: From dialogue to song. Well, I think, you know, we're taught - when it's time to sing, it's the most heightened moment of the section - you know, whatever part...
GROSS: Right.
BROOKS: ...Of the act.
GROSS: It's too big to express just through...
BROOKS: It's - exactly.
GROSS: ...Spoken word.
BROOKS: Exactly. And so I think that just helps, you know, you as an actor to know the movement of the piece, you know? And it's - that was exciting, to get to do that song, 'cause I'm not a theater girl like people - a musical theater girl like people think, Terry. You know, that was - I had done only one other musical before that, and that was "Rent," you know? And I didn't grow up...
GROSS: Where were you in "Rent"?
BROOKS: I was the soloist. The...
(Singing) Five hundred twenty-five thousand six hundred...
The main soloist in "Seasons Of Love" who hits the high note.
GROSS: Oh.
BROOKS: Like (laughter)...
GROSS: Was this on Broadway?
BROOKS: No. This was in Ithaca, New York, at a theater - a regional theater. Yeah. And I didn't grow up, you know, listening to all the musical theatre songs. I was a church girl.
GROSS: Yeah. But...
BROOKS: So I was...
GROSS: You sang in church, right?
BROOKS: Yes. I sang in church from 4 - 3, 4 years old. I was singing in church and wasn't much of a soloist (laughter), to say - I was definitely a part of the choir. And there's video of me singing in church when I did have solos, and you can see I am so shy. Like, I literally had the - like, the words, you know, written on a piece of paper, and I'm looking at them because I'm so scared that I'm going to forget them. Super shy back then.
GROSS: How did you get from super shy to singing a song like "Hell No!"?
BROOKS: God. Truly. Like...
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: And I feel like - you know what? I - this is what I'll say. For me, when I am playing a character, I get to escape. And that is my favorite place to be because I get to not be Danielle. When someone would ask me to sing as Danielle, it would terrify me. But ask me to sing as Sofia. Ask me to sing as Mahalia. I got you, 'cause it was my way of, like, hiding behind the character. So...
GROSS: Let's talk more about singing in church. So you grew up singing in church, mostly in the choir, but starting when you were, like, 3 or 4.
BROOKS: Yeah.
GROSS: What were some of your favorite gospel songs?
BROOKS: Ooh. That is such a good question. Oh, man. There was this song. It goes...
(Singing) I have some good days. I've had some hills to climb. I've had some weary days and some sleepless nights. But when I look around, and I think things over, all of my good days outweigh my bad days. And I won't, I won't complain.
That was one of my favorite songs.
GROSS: What made it...
BROOKS: Yeah.
GROSS: ...One of your favorites?
BROOKS: Well, when I was 6, that was - or 6 or 7, I don't remember - it was my first church solo. Now, what does a 6-, 7-year-old know about complaining and good days and bad days? I don't know. But that was my song. And then when I became an adult, I understood what that song meant. That's why I love that song so much, because we do have good days and we have bad days. It's unescapable, being a person, right? But it's also perspective at times. It's like, how are you choosing to see those days? And I choose to do as least amount of complaining as I can, you know?
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROOKS: And that's what that song is really saying, is, like, how can you just see the good when you look around and think things over? And gratitude should always lead the way.
GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Danielle Brooks. She's known for her roles in the series "Orange Is The New Black" as Taystee and for her role in the Broadway revival and film adaptation of "The Color Purple" as Sofia. She co-stars in the new film "If I Go Will They Miss Me." We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JULIAN LAGE GROUP'S "TELEGRAM")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Danielle Brooks. She co-stars in the film "If I Go Will They Miss Me." She's known for her role in the Netflix series "Orange Is The New Black" as Taystee and for her role in the Broadway revival of the musical "The Color Purple" and in the 2023 film adaptation of the musical as Sofia. Brooks was also in "A Minecraft Movie" and recently won a Critics Choice Award for her performance in the series "Peacemaker," adapted from a DC Comics superhero series.
We were talking earlier about being in Juilliard. And you got there with the help of $20,000 that your godmother left for you in her will, and I think she died not long before you got accepted to Juilliard. Who was your godmother who was so generous?
BROOKS: Her name was Annie Edge. She was so spectacular to me. She was an older woman, probably in her 60s. And we just bonded. I asked her to be my godmother at 5. And I met her at church. And so my mom said yeah, and we were stuck at the hip. I mean, I would spend the night over at her house. You know, she taught me what an English muffin was.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROOKS: You know, I taught her to forget people that were behind her when she's driving, and they're asking her to drive faster by honking. I was like, don't worry about them, Miss Edge. Like, we were tight. And she unfortunately passed away from cancer when I was 15, and that hit hard for me. That was one of my first losses. I hadn't experienced death in a personal way outside of losing my mother's mother, so this was a heavy one for me. I was tight with her.
And I had no idea that she had left $20,000 in her will for my college education. And we needed that money, Terry. We - you know, I was the firstborn, and my parents were lower middle class at the time. And, you know, they worked really hard but wasn't able at the time to save money for my college, you know, and had expectations at the time for me to, you know, not study it. They didn't know that their kid was going to want to go to Juilliard. You know, they were thinking maybe a state - in-state school, you know, where you can get funds from the state - you know, make it cheaper.
But yeah. Their baby girl had big dreams. And, you know, luckily, Miss Edge saw something in me and made that generous donation to my education. And I have something called the Annie Edge Scholarship, which - the Annie Edge Scholarship I started over five years ago. And it's - you know, you have to apply. And it was only for my - you know, the kids at the church who were getting ready for college, you know? And so yeah. I just am so thankful for Miss Edge, and that's my way of honoring her.
GROSS: Did Miss Edge have children?
BROOKS: She did not. I was her child. No. She did not have any kids - wasn't married. Yeah. It was just her.
GROSS: How did your mother feel about that? Do you think she was at all jealous?
BROOKS: No. I think my mother knew that it takes a village, and I think she was so grateful that I had somebody like Miss Edge. And I'm grateful that my mom, you know, functioned like that 'cause there are parents who do get jealous that their kid doesn't run to them first for whatever. But my mom took it as, like, oh, thank God she has somebody that I can trust, that I know, that is instilling good things in her, that she can lean on.
And I treat my daughter the same way. You know, I can't always be there because of the line of work that I do. I always make sure that my presence is known - that Mommy is here, but I can't always physically be there. And so I - because of how my mother treated me with Miss Edge, I do the same thing. And I am very encouraging of, you know, Freeya connecting with other...
GROSS: That's your daughter's name.
BROOKS: ...Positive women. Yeah, Freeya. Yeah.
GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Danielle Brooks. In the Netflix series "Orange Is The New Black," she played Taystee. In the Broadway revival of the musical "The Color Purple" and in the 2023 film adaptation of the musical, she played Sofia. She also appeared in "A Minecraft Movie" and won a Critics Choice Award for her role in the series "Peacemaker." She co-stars in the new film "If I Go Will They Miss Me." We'll be back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JULIAN LAGE'S "LULLABY")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Danielle Brooks. She costars in the new film "If I Go Will They Miss Me." In the Netflix series "Orange Is The New Black," she played Taystee. In the Broadway revival of the musical "The Color Purple" and in the 2023 film adaptation of the musical, she played Sofia. She's also known for her roles in "A Minecraft Movie" and for the series "Peacemaker," for which she won a Critics Choice Award. She played gospel singer Mahalia Jackson in a biopic for the Lifetime channel that's now streaming on several platforms. Brooks' father is a retired deacon. Her mother is a minister.
Did you hear a lot of Mahalia Jackson when you were growing up?
BROOKS: I did. I did. Yeah, she definitely was in our home, for sure (laughter). My mother's a singer as well, so...
GROSS: Oh, OK. So when you got the part as Mahalia Jackson in a movie that's officially called "Robin Roberts Presents: Mahalia" (laughter) - and so - well, your parents must have been so excited because your mother is a minister and your father was a deacon.
BROOKS: Yes. The church was so excited. And, you know, the movie actually dropped during the pandemic, and so...
GROSS: In 2021.
BROOKS: Yeah. So what we did was we did a private screening for the church that I grew up in in Simpsonville, South Carolina - Bethlehem Baptist Church. And everybody stayed in their cars, and we got a huge projector out in the parking lot, and everyone listened from a radio station and watched it like old-school, you know, movies. We - they watched it in their cars. And that was so cool, you know? Like, this place that I really do think helped me to love the theater (laughter), believe it or not - like, the church is where I think my love for theater came - to be able to share something with them that I knew was going to be meaningful.
GROSS: So I want to play you as Mahalia Jackson...
BROOKS: Oh, wow.
GROSS: ...From the soundtrack of the movie. And what I want...
BROOKS: OK.
GROSS: ...To play is "My God Is Real.".
BROOKS: Oh, wow.
GROSS: You sound great on this, so let's hear it. This is my guest...
BROOKS: OK.
GROSS: ...Danielle Brooks.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MY GOD IS REAL")
BROOKS: (As Mahalia Jackson, singing) There are some things I may not know. There are some places, dear Lord, I cannot go. But I am sure of this one thing. That God is real, for I can feel Him in my soul.
GROSS: So that is a - it's a beautiful song, and you sing it so well. What did you have to do with your singing to sound like you were Mahalia Jackson for the movie?
BROOKS: Terry - ooh. We worked on music for probably two weeks, I think, because I did sing all of that. And the hardest part was getting rid of the things that I was taught at Juilliard, to be honest, which is - one of the things that they taught us, you know, and gave us in our toolbox is, like, knowing when to throw, you know, the baby out with bathwater, as one might say. You know, letting go of the technique when it's time. And that's what I had to do. Like, so for example, you know, when she says, chilren (ph), you know, I was - I would be singing children. And I had to stop myself and, like, why am I saying children? She would say chilren, you know?
Or just, like, not overarticulating things. (Singing) I'm going to meet Abraham and Isaac.
You know, normally, I would be like, (singing) I'm going to meet Abraham and...
Like, articulating all of the, you know, consonants and stuff - like, I had to really break it down in kind of, like, a Shakespearean way, like I would with Shakespeare. And, you know, you have iambic pentameter and things like that. And you just have to - it's like a code. You got to create a code for yourself to understand how this woman speaks and where she speaks from and how she uses language, you know?
And that's the thing. Like, Mahalia sings all the way down in her feet, you know? So when I would do this, I would be barefoot when I was in the studio, you know, because you really do need to be that - it's that low. To be honest, she sings from another place, too, but I'm trying to be respectful (laughter), you know? But that core space is where she sang from.
GROSS: So you grew up very churched (ph)...
BROOKS: Yes (laughter).
GROSS: ...With your mother a minister and your father a deacon. And was it - did you grew up with a feeling that your parents had a special connection to God?
BROOKS: Oh, for sure. I mean, my mother was a praying - and still is a very prayed-up woman. She would be the one at 6 a.m. - you would hear her downstairs in the living room, speaking in tongues, praying, talking to God. You know, it was - yeah, she woke you up in prayer.
And at the time, you know, we had - you - two floors, and she would turn up the music. Like, you had speakers in each room, even though we was not rich, even though that sounds very rich (laughter). We had these speakers in our house, and she would play gospel music on Saturdays at probably 8 in the morning to wake me and my brother up to clean the house, which sounds so old-school now that I'm saying it back to you 'cause nobody's really asked me questions like that.
But - and my dad was, too. You know, he wasn't as forth-showing (ph), if that's the right word to say, or - like, he wasn't as showy with his relationship with God. Like, he went to church all the time and obviously was a deacon, but, like, my mother was the one you saw, like, in worship all the time. And still is.
GROSS: Did you speak in tongues?
BROOKS: No. No (laughter). Not at all. Like, no, definitely did not. I would say I do feel that I have a wonderful connection to God, you know, and the spirit and still practice Christianity and go to church on Sundays with my family, you know? And I am - I listen to gospel music like no other genre because it just soothes my soul. And I feel like gospel music has always been that for me, my helpmate in life.
GROSS: So feeling that your parents were kind of - had a special relationship with God and were, like, God's representative or close to God, did it make you, like, in awe of your parents? Did you feel like you couldn't misbehave because that would be misbehaving in front of God in a way that people's regular parents who weren't leaders of the church...
BROOKS: Yeah.
GROSS: ...Wouldn't feel?
BROOKS: Yeah, for sure. There was a lot of pressure as a kid to be perfect. I think that's, like, probably one of those things in my adulthood I'm still going to therapy for.
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: You know, it's like, this sense of perfection, not getting anything wrong. And, you know, the Bible says honor thy father and mothers, that your days may be long on this earth. And so that rang very true in my house. You know, we needed to do what our parents wanted us to do. There was no way around it, you know? And if you had slipups, you just, it just - the guilt that weighed on you, you know, was heavy for me. And I don't know if it stemmed from me doing pageants at church, you know, and they taught you how to hold your feet and how to stand.
And I don't know. It was just this perfection that was built in me pretty early. And maybe it's being the first child, you know, and the responsibilities of being a good example to my brother, you know? And I say, I respectfully say this, you know, but I think my mom really cared a lot about what others thought. And I say it respectfully, Ma, if you hear this (laughter). But, you know, I think that had a lot to do with it is, what do people see? And how are they perceiving you? And maybe this is a Southern thing, you know, maybe it's not just a my mom thing. But, yeah, that was just....
GROSS: I don't think it's just a your mom thing (laughter).
BROOKS: Yeah, a lot of people, right?
GROSS: Yeah, I think so.
BROOKS: Yeah.
GROSS: What did they want you to do that you didn't want to do?
BROOKS: Oh, that's a deep question. Well, one thing, you know, was there was a fear of me going to Juilliard. My mother was really scared for me. And my dad said to me, he's like, I want you to follow your heart. And so, I did. You know, I went to Juilliard. And she was just scared of, like, you know, being in New York and her child leaving at 17.
And then she was nervous about me doing "Orange Is The New Black." And then my father again was like, follow your heart. And I did. And that changed my life, you know? But then there was that fear of, like, what is she being exposed to? You know, there's a lot. The subject matter of lesbians and gays was all up and in between "Orange Is The New Black." So that was a fear, you know, of what I was being taught.
GROSS: Foul language.
BROOKS: Foul language. I mean, we had...
GROSS: Drugs.
BROOKS: Come on. The list goes on and on.
GROSS: Yeah. I could keep going, yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: So, yeah, Mama was shooketh.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BROOKS: But she got over it. She really started to see the beauty of the show as time went on.
GROSS: Your first scene in "Orange Is The New Black," where, you know, the person whose story we start with is in prison - and then everybody gets their stories. But, you know...
BROOKS: Yeah.
GROSS: It's based on the character whose memoir the series is based on. But anyway, so she gets in the shower. Your character comes by...
BROOKS: (Laughter).
GROSS: ...And makes comments about her body and gets into the shower naked. And I know when you read that, you thought, oh, I can't do naked (laughter). And I think...
BROOKS: Terry, you already know. I was like, I can't do naked.
GROSS: Right. And you're probably thinking about what your parents would think.
BROOKS: Yes.
GROSS: But you're not really naked. I mean, we don't see your body.
BROOKS: That was by choice, though. That was by choice.
GROSS: We know that you're in the shower naked. So did you tell the director, I want the role, I can't be naked, you can't see my naked body?
BROOKS: I waited until I got there. And I was terrified because I knew it was on this page. You know, it was like, she takes her clothes off and gets in the shower. And I think, low-key, if I would've done it, they would've kept it. Like, if I would've said, all right, here's - you know, I'm doing it, they would've kept it. But I remember our director's name was Michael. And I talked to him about it, and we found a solution. And do you know how I felt, like, this weight lifted off of my shoulder when we came up with that solution where we did not have to be topless?
I was like, wow. Like, because when you're coming into this industry, you hear all of these stories, you know, and all of these sacrifices people make to get the job, you know? And so I was scared. I was like, I don't want to enter this and this is the start for me. It's, like, my first scene. I'm just going to be known as the girl who takes her clothes off. Like, I was - and I'm an inmate. Like, what am I doing? But it was the best decision ever that I could've ever made for my career.
GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Danielle Brooks. She costars in the new film "If I Go Will They Miss Me." You may also know her from "Orange Is The New Black," "The Color Purple," "A Minecraft Movie" and the series "Peacemaker." We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF ALLISON MILLER'S BOOM TIC BOOM'S "SHIMMER")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Danielle Brooks. She costars in the new film "If I Go Will They Miss Me." She's known for playing Taystee in the Netflix series "Orange Is The New Black" and Sofia in the Broadway revival of the musical "The Color Purple" and the 2023 film adaptation of the musical. Brooks grew up in the Baptist Church. Her mother is a minister, and her father is a retired deacon. She sang in the church choir. In 2021, she portrayed portrayed gospel singer Mahalia Jackson in a biopic that is now streaming on several platforms.
One of the things I love about gospel songs and hymns is that so many of them are about death, about the fear of death, about the release of death...
BROOKS: Yeah.
GROSS: ...Being reunited with loved ones. You know, so some of the songs are from the perspective of being frightened and others are reassuring. I wonder if you have a favorite gospel song about death.
BROOKS: Yeah, I do. It's called "Precious Lord," and it goes (singing) precious Lord, take my hand, lead me on and let me stand. I am tired. I am weak. I am worn. Through the storm, through the night lead me on to the light. So won't you take, take my hand, precious Lord, and lead me on.
Yeah, that's one about death (laughter).
GROSS: And it is so beautiful. You sing that in the Mahalia Jackson movie.
BROOKS: I do.
GROSS: And Mahalia Jackson sang it at Martin Luther King's funeral.
BROOKS: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Such tie-ins.
GROSS: And do you know that from church, from when you were growing up?
BROOKS: I do. That is definitely a song that I heard all the time in church. And we sing it, you know, when it was time to leave church, and we sang it at people's funerals. I even think I sang it at my grandmother's funeral. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I did. But, yeah, that song, I heard all the time.
GROSS: Back in - when you were 25 - and you're about to be 37, so that was about a little more than 10 years ago - there was an article in Glamour magazine that had your byline. And it was headlined How I Learned To Love My Body. And it's all about body image, being plus sized, your hair. And you said, or you wrote, by the standard definition of beauty that I had absorbed from the world around me, I had three strikes against me. I was too dark, too curly and too fat. And you ask a question in that essay that I think is a really important one. You write, if art is supposed to reflect life, why don't the people on red carpets and in magazines reflect reality?
BROOKS: It doesn't. It doesn't. I think about it all the time. I just remember being in rooms like Golden Globes. And I would say to myself, Terry, I would say, is there anybody in here I could change a dress with? And if you think about it, there's 67% of women that wear a size 14 or more, and that does not reflect what we see on television. Now, it's starting to change and shift. You know, we're having amazing actresses out now that are reflective, you know. But in Hollywood, we're talking about A-listers, big dogs, the ones that are on Vogue and Cosmopolitan and Vanity Fair. They do not look like me. And I think that has been one of my main goals is to be able to, like, bust open the box, break that thing down and really allow this next generation to say, wow, man, if Danielle was able to do that, I can do that.
GROSS: What do you think the GLP-1s has done to the body positivity movement?
BROOKS: Ooh, now you're getting deep (laughter). I think - now, this might be controversial, but I think it's helping, because I don't think body positivity is just about, like, loving your body, you know, as it is - even if it's big, just love it. I think you should love your body at whatever size, you know? And for me, like, I've lost 80 pounds. People don't really notice. I don't understand why, 'cause I'm very proud of it. But, like, I've lost 80 pounds from when I had my daughter in 2019. And there was moments when I had gained that weight, and I wanted - I was hiding. I was hiding from the world when it came to social media. You know, if you go back and watch that first episode of "Peacemaker," you're going to see those 80 pounds on me.
But I worked really hard. I worked super hard on my own, you know, and got down to maybe, like, 60 pounds, you know, less on my body. And then I started taking GLP-1s. And I'm not ashamed. At first, I was. At first I was like, definitely, what am I doing? Like, is this healthy? Is this safe? And after being on them for months, I am very happy that I made that choice. You know, I feel more confident. And I think - the thing that I have always preached is love yourself wherever you are. I have never said that you got to stay there. So I'm here for it.
GROSS: Danielle Brooks costars on the new movie, "If I Go Will They Miss Me." It's currently in a limited release and will open in more theaters this Friday. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MARY LOU WILLIAMS' "A GRAND NIGHT FOR SWINGING")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Danielle Brooks. She costars in the film "If I Go Will They Miss Me." She's known for her role in the Netflix series "Orange Is The New Black" as Taystee and for her role in the Broadway revival of the musical "The Color Purple" and in the 2023 film adaptation of the musical as Sofia. Brooks was also in "A Minecraft Movie" and recently won a Critics Choice Award for her performance in the series "Peacemaker," adapted from a DC Comics superhero series.
I want to play one more song. And this is a song from an EP of four songs that you recorded. And this is a song that you co-wrote, and Jon Batiste is featured on it. We hear his voice very, very briefly on it. But what role did he play on this? Did he produce it, arrange it? Is he at the piano?
BROOKS: He's at the piano. He came at the end on the organ and spiced up the song for me and lended his voice, like you say, very lightly in the end. And we kind of go back to that Juilliard feel that I had mentioned - that call and response - at the very end of the song.
GROSS: And I think it's interesting, given all the discussion that we had about church and gospel music, that this is a secular song. But it's called "Blessings," and it's about kind of, you know, being grateful for your blessings. Can you talk a little bit about what inspired the song?
BROOKS: I - hey, I guess I'm really just fond of, you know, staying positive, man. Like, I just know that life gets tough. And I guess this was my version of the gospel song "I Won't Complain." You know, it's that reminder to count your blessings. I'm on my feet, you know...
(Singing) Four, five, six. No, I can't forget.
At the end of the day, I got blessings to count. Like, I got so much to be grateful for, you know? And I think for me, I just - I need that reminder, you know? And I want people to be reminded. And the reason I want people to be reminded is because we affect each other so powerfully, you know? And how beautiful that is, if we could just find ways to uplift each other.
GROSS: Danielle Brooks, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much.
BROOKS: Thank you, Terry. Thank you for having me. Thank you for your poignant questions and, you know, allowing me to reflect on what life has been in my 37 years, almost. You know, I really appreciate you. Thank you.
GROSS: And here you are singing "Blessings."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BLESSINGS")
BROOKS: (Singing) When the tide comes rolling in, and I can't keep up with it, when the road seems so long, and I question my will to go on, got to remember, got to remember - count one, two, three. I'm still on my feet. Count four, five, six. No, I can't forget. At the end of the day, while there's blood flowing through my veins, I've got blessings.
UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTISTS: (Singing) Blessings.
BROOKS: (Singing) Blessings.
UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTISTS: (Singing) Blessings.
BROOKS: (Singing) Blessings to count. When I feel unqualified, and it seems like I can't make it through, no matter how hard I try. When my dreams...
GROSS: Danielle Brooks co-stars in the new movie "If I Go Will They Miss Me." It's currently in a limited release and will open in more theaters this Friday.
Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, President Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner has said peace deals are like real estate deals. He's involved with both as a U.S. special envoy negotiating peace plans while working on private business deals with some of the same countries. We'll talk with The New Yorker's Dexter Filkins about his story "Jared Kushner's Dollar Diplomacy." I hope you'll join us.
To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram - @nprfreshair. FRESH AIR's executive producer is Sam Briger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer today is Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez-Wisler. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.
(SOUNDBITE OF JON-ERIK KELLSO'S "WEARY BLUES") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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