JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Russia and Ukraine are both conducting punishing airstrikes that the other side simply cannot stop. Air offenses far outstrip air defenses, and there is no sign this huge gap will be closed anytime soon. For more, we're joined by NPR correspondents in the two countries. Greg Myre is in Kyiv and Charles Maynes is in Moscow. Hi to both of you.
CHARLES MAYNES, BYLINE: Hi, Juana.
GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Hi, Juana.
SUMMERS: Charles, I'll start with you and the view from Russia. What type of impact are all of these Ukrainian drone strikes having on Russians?
MAYNES: Well, let's start with this. You know, just today, 13 people - some Russians, some Central Asian migrant workers - died when Ukrainian drones struck an oil-producing town in the Russian Republic of Tatarstan. Meanwhile, sustained Ukrainian attacks on energy infrastructure - I mean, we're talking ports, refineries, fuel hubs, tankers - all across Russia have caused gas shortages that really peaked in July, with long lines for drivers seeking gas. You know, the Kremlin has since managed this crisis by allowing the sale and import of lower-grade, dirtier fuel, but it's far from over, and driving in Russia today is like driving in the 1970s.
Then we have these attacks on logistics centers and on Russia's largest online retailer, Wildberries, often referred to as Russia's Amazon. In particular, you know, this is part of an open Ukrainian campaign to, quote, "bring the war home to Russians." And in hitting Wildberries, it's doing so. Near daily strikes and warehouses have wiped out tens of thousands of small businesses whose owners seemingly have nothing to do with the war. And more broadly, these attacks chip away at this idea that life can still be pretty normal for a lot of Russians, despite the war and Western sanctions. And services like Wildberries meant you could basically buy what you wanted when you wanted, and that no longer feels the case.
SUMMERS: And Greg, over to you. Are Ukrainians feeling more vulnerable as the Russians step up these ballistic missile attacks?
MYRE: Yes, absolutely. Charles noted the civilian deaths today in Russia. Well, Ukrainian civilians are also being hit. They say this has been the case throughout the war, and what's made it worse is they've now lost this sort of limited protection that they've had. In the past few years, when you heard air raid sirens go off, you knew Ukraine's air defenses were responding and could be reasonably confident they'd shoot down much - not all - but a lot of the incoming fire. And that's just no longer true.
Now, you hear the sirens - and you hear them most nights - you know Ukraine is out of the U.S.-made Patriot air defense missiles and is really helpless to stop these incoming Russian ballistic missiles. We've had several terrible nights recently. Russia has fired salvos of more than 20 ballistic missiles at Kyiv and other cities, and Ukraine has not shot down any of them or, at most, one. And Ukraine isn't hiding this. The air force gives the figures every morning. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy constantly calls on the U.S. and Europe to send Patriot missiles to Ukraine.
SUMMERS: I'll put this next question to both of you. The two countries have developed fearsome, offensive air capabilities. Why haven't their air defenses kept pace? Charles, I'll start with you and Russia.
MAYNES: Well, the simple but honest answer is that Russia's big - the world's largest country, by far. In fact, it makes up 11% of the Earth's total land mass. So it follows that its defenses can't be everywhere at once. Of course, protecting Moscow is a priority, so are military installations. But how do you defend gas and oil facilities scattered across the country? Now factor in commercial warehouses like Wildberries. You know, how do you protect Crimea, the annexed peninsula that Russia seized from Ukraine in 2014? You know, it's now out of electricity, fuel, supplies.
A factor here, I think, is Russia's underestimated Ukraine, which has really been a common thread throughout this war. The Kremlin planned this invasion as a three-day operation, and we're now in year five of the conflict. All that said, there is a genuine shock among Russians that these attacks are now happening daily. It's almost like Groundhog Day. You know, you wake up to learn what's the latest thing to go up in flames from these drones, and it doesn't seem to be much that the government can do about it, at least not so far.
SUMMERS: And, Greg, what about Ukraine then?
MYRE: Yeah, the real frustration for Ukrainians is that they've had this partial solution with the Patriot air defense batteries. And, of course, Ukraine still has them, but without the interceptor missiles, it's like having a gun but not having any bullets to put in them. And Ukraine has run out of defensive missiles just as Russia is ramping up its production of offensive missiles. Now, about 20 countries have Patriots, but the Trump administration is not sending any of them now. No other country is publicly pledging to help Ukraine. The U.S. stockpiles are way down because of the war in Iran. European countries have provided some previously but have limited stocks and appear unwilling to part with them now.
So Ukraine is talking about building a new antimissile system with European countries. But this is complicated and will take time. There's talk about testing a new missile but not until the middle of next year. And Juana, one final note on that, Ukraine makes its own drone interceptors and shoots down around 90% of incoming Russian drones. Ukraine is really a world leader in this field, but that doesn't help with the much more powerful ballistic missiles.
SUMMERS: And Greg, many of these airstrikes, they're hitting civilians or economic sites rather than military targets. Are they likely to change the trajectory of the war?
MYRE: You know, they may not. I mean, I've been to several sites that have been hit here in Kyiv - apartment buildings, warehouses. These attacks certainly instill fear in people and damage the economy, but they're far from the frontline, and the attacks don't really seem to provide much if any military advantage for Russia.
Still, the big concern is what happens this winter? Russia keeps hitting Ukraine's civilian power grid every winter. Ukraine keeps patching it together, but it's increasingly fragile, especially if Ukraine doesn't have defenses to protect it. And really, Juana, that's what makes the next few months very critical. Can Ukraine find a solution before winter starts to bite, and to what extent can Russia exploit this vulnerability right now?
SUMMERS: And, Charles, lastly, this rapid evolution in the air war seems to be in contrast to the ground war that is largely a stalemate. Are you seeing any movement there?
MAYNES: Well, the Kremlin continues to insist its forces are making progress on the ground. But to the degree that that's true, it's coming at a very slow pace and amid heavy losses. Russian President Vladimir Putin has long insisted it's just a matter of time before the Ukrainian lines crack under Russian pressure, and that belief seems to be driving his actions even now.
You know, a telling moment came last month when Ukraine, with U.S. backing, floated this idea of a mutual pause on these long-range attacks that, as we've been discussing, have been damaging to both sides. Well, Putin - he rejected the idea outright. He said this would allow Ukraine to send reinforcements to the frontlines. And besides, he added, whatever damage Ukraine can inflict on us, Russia can inflict far more on them.
SUMMERS: NPR's Charles Maynes in Moscow and Greg Myre in Kyiv. Thanks to both of you.
MAYNES: Thank you.
MYRE: Sure thing, Juana. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
