DON GONYEA, HOST:
With the U.S. trying to disentangle itself from the country's latest military conflict, we wanted to take a look at how the military has been portrayed on the big screen. In the World War II era, movies often served as propaganda, like 1942's "Flying Tigers" starring John Wayne.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "FLYING TIGERS")
JOHN WAYNE: (As Capt. Jim Gordon) Listen, Dale, this is your first time up. Don't try to win this war all by yourself. Stick close...
GONYEA: By the 1970s, a more jaundiced view of war came into focus in movies like "Apocalypse Now."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "APOCALYPSE NOW")
MARLON BRANDO: (As Colonel Kurtz) You're an errand boy sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill.
GONYEA: Marlon Brando there. Military movies continue to evolve and reflect the times when they were made. So we wanted to see what people who know quite a lot about our armed forces make of the way America's military is depicted on the big screen. To get into all this, we have two of NPR's military experts, Quil Lawrence who covers veterans affairs and Tom Bowman, our Pentagon correspondent. Good to be with both you guys.
TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Hey, Don.
QUIL LAWRENCE, BYLINE: Hey. Thanks.
GONYEA: So I feel like we can divide movies about the military into separate categories. For instance, there's William Wyler's classic, "The Best Years Of Our Lives," from 1946.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES")
HAROLD RUSSELL: (As Homer Parrish) This is when I know I'm helpless. My hands are down there on the bed. I can't put them on again without calling to somebody for help.
GONYEA: That's about World War II veterans trying to reacclimate to civilian life. It is a much different experience from Steven Spielberg's "Saving Private Ryan," which puts you right in the thick of combat.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "SAVING PRIVATE RYAN")
TOM HANKS: (As Captain Miller) All right, three runners with suppressing fire. Mellish, you hook to the right. I'll go up the middle. Who's going left?
GONYEA: Can we break down what each type offers? Tom, why don't you go first?
BOWMAN: Yeah, you know, I really loved "The Best Years Of Our Lives," and I think it's really pretty daring for that time. It shows psychological damage on these guys coming back from war.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES")
DANA ANDREWS: (As Fred Derry) Come on, the rest of you guys.
VIRGINIA MAYO: (As Marie Derry) Fred.
ANDREWS: (As Fred Derry) Come on, get out.
MAYO: (As Marie Derry) Fred, wake up.
ANDREWS: (As Fred Derry) Get out.
MAYO: (As Marie Derry) Wake up.
ANDREWS: (As Fred Derry) Get out (ph).
BOWMAN: "Saving Private Ryan," a classic movie, the depiction of the D-Day invasion - I remember seeing it when it came out in 1998.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "SAVING PRIVATE RYAN")
HANKS: (As Captain Miller, yelling) Clear the shingle.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character, yelling) Fire in the hole.
TOM SIZEMORE: (As Sergeant Horvath, yelling) Fire in the hole.
BOWMAN: At that time, I know I read some stories about how veterans of D-Day, some of them just walked out of the theater because it was so realistic. They just couldn't take it.
GONYEA: Quil, what type of film do you maybe get more out of - the combat film or the film about veterans coming home?
LAWRENCE: Well, it's a perfect dichotomy, really, because the war films can be a real grueling odyssey like "Saving Private Ryan," or it can be something like "The Great Escape"...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE GREAT ESCAPE")
STEVE MCQUEEN: (As Hilts "The Cooler King") When I get through that wire, I'm not going to be peeking over fences making maps for you guys. By morning, I'm going to be so far away, you couldn't hear it if they were shooting me with howitzers.
LAWRENCE: ...Where you're just involved in this story, which can be humorous, and it's kind of a - you know, war has always provided some of the greatest drama in human history in art. But it also - I say it's a perfect dichotomy because it's really how the U.S. government divides things too. They send you over to war, and that is where you have the glory and the fighting and the grueling, exciting combat. And then, if you want to deal with the consequences, that's not our problem, says the Pentagon. That's the VA. Send them over there. And so that's really the difference in these two kinds of films, is one is the adventure of it. And we'll talk about whether you can really have an anti-war film. But the veterans film is really when you're paying the piper. These are the consequences, the human consequences of war that go on for decades.
GONYEA: So for both of you, growing up, what were the types of war movies you saw? What were your takeaways as far as how they portrayed the military? Tom, you want to start?
BOWMAN: Yeah, I remember seeing "The Longest Day" with my dad. I was pretty young, maybe 8 or 9 or something like that.
GONYEA: So that's about D-Day.
BOWMAN: Correct, about D-Day.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LONGEST DAY")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Are you all right, boy?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #3: (As character) Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Well, don't you think you better go back there and get your rifle?
BOWMAN: And I remember I was eating. He got me some lemon lozenges or lemon candy, I remember, at the theater in our hometown in Norwood, Massachusetts. And I just remember how sweeping it was. You know, it was a star-studded cast, as they said back then.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LONGEST DAY")
WAYNE: (As Lt. Col. Benjamin Vandervoort) Your assignment tonight is strategic. You can't give the enemy a break. Send them to hell.
GONYEA: Quil, what movies impacted you?
LAWRENCE: Well, for war movies, I guess, when I was younger, I probably was interested in some of these more realistic and disturbing Vietnam movies like "Apocalypse Now," "The Deer Hunter."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE DEER HUNTER")
MERYL STREEP: (As Linda) You sure you're all right, huh?
ROBERT DE NIRO: (As Michael) Yeah.
STREEP: (As Linda) What about your wounds?
DE NIRO: (As Michael) Just the usual complications, that's all.
LAWRENCE: Eventually when "Full Metal Jacket" and "Platoon" came out, I was certainly fascinated by those.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "PLATOON")
CHARLIE SHEEN: (As Chris) They say, if you're going to get killed in the 'Nam, it's better to get it in the first few weeks. The logic being you don't suffer that much.
LAWRENCE: I would say, you know, a favorite, too, is "Stripes," which...
GONYEA: (Laughter) Classic.
LAWRENCE: ...Is a classic comedy, which was actually filmed on, you know, a U.S. Army base.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "STRIPES")
BILL MURRAY: (As John) There is one thing that we all have in common. We were all stupid enough to enlist in the Army.
LAWRENCE: And the Army, at the time, this was a - hat tip to Ken Robbins (ph), a retired colonel I know, who said that - he told me they actually let Bill Murray come in and film this total farce because Army recruiting was so bad at that stage in the early '80s, they figured it could only help to have a movie, any movie, about the Army.
GONYEA: It's funny, thinking about "Stripes," it seems like no matter how farcical or cynical war films can be, some viewers can still find war attractive or exciting.
LAWRENCE: Yeah. You know, contradictorily, you know, paradoxically, all accurate movies about war should be anti-war movies. But the fact is someone, probably a 16, 17-year-old boy in America, is going to be excited by the thrill of the combat and end up interested in joining because of this horrific violence that he's seeing on screen.
GONYEA: So can either of you recommend one, maybe two films that really got at something honest or true about the military experience?
BOWMAN: I like the movie "Glory"...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "GLORY")
MORGAN FREEMAN: (As Sgt. Maj. John Rawlins) If tomorrow, we have to meet the Judgment Day...
UNIDENTIFIED ACTORS: (As characters) Yes, Sir.
FREEMAN: (As Sgt. Maj. John Rawlins) ...Oh, Heavenly Father, we want you to let our folks know that we died facing the enemy.
BOWMAN: ...Came out a number of years ago about the Massachusetts 54th Regiment, the Black unit that was commanded by a white officer, Robert Gould Shaw, played by of all people, Matthew Broderick.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "GLORY")
MATTHEW BRODERICK: (As Col. Robert Gould Shaw) It is my hope that the same courage, spirit and honor which has brought us together will one day restore this union.
BOWMAN: It's kind of a little-known episode in the Civil War, and I thought that was pretty well done and pretty accurate - also, "Black Hawk Down."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BLACK HAWK DOWN")
ZELJKO IVANEK: (As Harrell) We got a Black Hawk down. We got a Black Hawk down.
BOWMAN: I knew one of the Delta Force soldiers who was there at the time. It's pretty realistic. It's almost claustrophobic. There are these narrow streets. There are barricades, gunfire and smoke. They're shooting RPGs.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BLACK HAWK DOWN")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #4: (As character, yelling) Take cover.
(SOUNDBITE OF EXPLOSIONS)
BOWMAN: The confusion as these guys try to reach their friends who are trapped - and also, it shows you the heroism but also shows you just what a mess this whole military mission was.
GONYEA: Quil, what have you got?
LAWRENCE: Yeah, I would say, if you want to know what counterinsurgency is about, this movie isn't about Iraq and Afghanistan. It's about the French counterinsurgency in Algeria. "The Battle Of Algiers" - it's a classic.
(SOUNDBITE OF BRUNO NICOLAI AND ENNIO MORRICONE'S "ALGIERS NOVEMBER 1, 1954")
LAWRENCE: I think, though, so many of these films end up being about sort of validating the American experience, and we don't get to see so much from the other side. There's an all Middle Eastern cast in a film called "Mosul" about the battle of Mosul against ISIS after the major U.S. combat was over in Iraq. There's actually an animated film by Studio Ghibli of all places called "Grave Of The Fireflies"...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #5: (As character, non-English language spoken).
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #6: (As character, non-English language spoken).
LAWRENCE: ...About two young siblings trying to survive during the final months of World War II in Japan. And those can kind of look at war experiences not from an American perspective, which is something maybe we don't see enough of.
GONYEA: All right, some good recommendations. That was NPR's Quil Lawrence and Tom Bowman. Guys, thanks for joining us.
BOWMAN: You're welcome.
LAWRENCE: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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