SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Ukrainians are weathering their toughest winter since Russia's full-scale invasion nearly four years ago. Repeated Russian attacks have badly damaged the Ukrainian energy grid, and that has left cities, including Kyiv, the capital, without heating and electricity for long periods of time in the freezing snow and ice. NPR's Joanna Kakissis joins us from Kyiv. Joanna, thanks so much for being with us.
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Thanks for having me on the show, Scott.
SIMON: How cold is it? How are you and everyone else managing?
KAKISSIS: It's cold. The sun is shining today, and that does make things a little better, but it's still 13 degrees Fahrenheit out. We are lucky at the bureau because we have this backup battery for electricity. However, the heating is out for long periods, so it's really cold in our house, and I am wearing my coat right now. And outside, businesses are using generators to keep operating.
(SOUNDBITE OF GENERATOR HUMMING)
KAKISSIS: But many homes are cold and dark. It's so cold indoors in some homes that windows are icing up. People can see their breath, and children are vulnerable. We met one mom, Inessa Rozhdestvenska (ph). She was inside a bus that had been turned into a mobile shelter. It's a place where people can keep warm. They can warm up. They can charge their phones. She sipped hot tea as her two daughters, who are 5 and 2, were eating steaming bowls of instant ramen.
INESSA ROZHDESTVENSKA: (Speaking Ukrainian).
KAKISSIS: She says she goes to cafes to fill up thermoses with hot water, which she then pours into hot water bottles at home to help warm the beds at night.
SIMON: Joanna, any sense of how long these power outages might last?
KAKISSIS: Well, Scott, you know, Ukrainian energy workers are remarkably efficient at getting power plants and substations operating quickly again, even after repeated attacks. But it's a Sisyphean task. They rebuild them, and then there are more strikes. Also Kyiv is filled with these enormous apartment buildings. They're, like, 25, 30 stories high. They're heated through a system that pumps hot water through pipes. And because Russian attacks have damaged the system during sub-zero temperatures, the water is frozen in some of these pipes and burst them. So these will have to be fixed, too. I spoke with Ukrainian energy expert Oleksandr Kharchenko, who said only about a quarter of the electricity needed is available to Kyiv right now. And he said - he believes the Russian attacks aim to make Kyiv and other cities unlivable.
OLEKSANDR KHARCHENKO: It's absolutely clear. Target was to kill the city. Target was to freeze the city, and to push 3 million or 4 million - I don't know exactly how many people live right now in Kyiv, but to push them out of the city.
KAKISSIS: And he says the Kremlin wants to wear down Ukrainians so they will give up and make more concessions to Russia.
SIMON: Do you see signs of fatigue among the citizens?
KAKISSIS: Trying to live a normal life when you're freezing is exhausting. Inessa Rozhdestvenska, the mother we met in the mobile shelter, she said that before the war, you know, when the heat wasn't disruptive like this, she used to love seeing Kyiv blanketed in snow and icicles. But now she says she will probably move to western Ukraine if this blackout situation here in Kyiv lasts much longer. Other Ukrainians we spoke to say they will stay in Kyiv no matter what. One is personal trainer and former professional volleyball player, Polina Liutikova.
POLINA LIUTIKOVA: It came to my mind the words of my mom. My mom, she said to me like, we are survivors. And let's say it's a test for us. We have to survive, no matter how, and we will.
KAKISSIS: And, Scott, this is a sentiment I've heard over and over again. It shows up in public opinion surveys as well. Ukrainians want peace, and they are pressing their leaders for an end to the war, but not on Russia's terms.
SIMON: NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv. Thanks so much.
KAKISSIS: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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