AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Plenty of politicians, scholars, human rights groups and other critics of Israel's war in Gaza have called that war a genocide against Palestinians. Although these have been largely rhetorical accusations, the term genocide does have a specific meaning under international treaty. Today, as the Israeli military launched a ground offensive into Gaza City, a United Nations commission investigating the war in Gaza concluded that Israel has committed genocide under the definition adopted by the U.N. Genocide Convention of 1948.
Israeli government officials have repeatedly rejected this report and other such accusations. Meanwhile, we have reached the chair of the commission that authored the report - the U.N. Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel. Her name is Navi Pillay. Welcome to the program.
NAVI PILLAY: Thank you very much.
CHANG: So first, can you just define for us what is genocide, according to the U.N. Genocide Convention?
PILLAY: Firstly, it's accepted by all that genocide is a monstrous crime, an extremely serious crime, which is the killing and destruction of a people in whole or in part. That's why we say it has a specific overarching intent. So it's a serious crime, and it places a particular obligation on all states that they must prevent genocide and punish genocidaires wherever genocide occurs.
CHANG: Give us an overview of what your commission investigated in order to arrive at the conclusion that Israel has committed genocide under this definition that you just laid out?
PILLAY: You know, this is an 80-page report, so I'll just give you a small idea. For instance, the destruction of cultural, religious and educational structures and facilities. Have nothing to do with Hamas, but all that's been destroyed. The siege, starvation and blocking of humanitarian aid is not keeping Hamas hungry but the whole population. This is now the conflict where the largest number of journalists have been killed. It moved me so much that children have had to endure amputations without anesthetic. That they targeted the only fertility clinic in Gaza - its only one - so now all the embryos are destroyed. And we drew a conclusion from that about destroying the Palestinians' life and their future.
CHANG: And what specific statements by Israeli officials gave you enough confirmation that Israel intended to commit genocide of Palestinian civilians?
PILLAY: There are very many, but let me give you a few.
CHANG: Yes.
PILLAY: As early as 7 October 2023, Prime Minister Netanyahu vowed to inflict, let me quote him, "mighty vengeance" on "all of the places which Hamas is deployed, hiding and operating in, that wicked city, we will turn them into rubble." So although Netanyahu's statement carefully directed the call for vengeance at Hamas locations, his use of the phrase wicked city in the same statement implied that he saw the whole city of Gaza as responsible and a target for vengeance.
He told Palestinians in Gaza to leave now because we will operate forcefully everywhere, making no distinction between combatants and civilians and knowing that Palestinians in Gaza had nowhere to go. Then you have Defense Minister Yoav Gallant. On the 9 October 2023, he announced a complete siege on Gaza, claiming that Israel was fighting human animals and Israel must act accordingly.
CHANG: Well, Israeli government officials continue to reject your report and other accusations of genocide. So - you know, and I want to be specific here - Israel's ambassador to the U.N. called this report a, quote, "libelous rant" that relies on "Hamas falsehoods" in an attempt to "delegitimize and demonize the state of Israel." How do you respond to that?
PILLAY: That was their reaction to every one of our reports - calling us biased and antisemitic and so on. I wish they would look at the facts we set out and point out what is not true. Or open up and let us into the country so we could investigate even more fully and talk to Israeli victims.
CHANG: I want to talk a little bit about the U.S.'s role here. The U.S. is, of course, the major weapons supplier to Israel. The U.S. State Department has repeatedly rejected accusations that Israel is committing genocide. But do you and your commission believe that the U.S. is complicit in genocide?
PILLAY: You know, I've already made a statement out there saying even if you say nothing and do nothing and think you are being neutral, you are not. You're being complicit. Under the Genocide Convention, they would fall into the category - those who are helping with arms, military weapons and other support.
CHANG: You believe that states that continue to help supply arms to Israel...
PILLAY: Yes.
CHANG: ...Are complicit in genocide?
PILLAY: Yes.
CHANG: Navi Pillay chairs the U.N. Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Thank you very much for joining us today.
PILLAY: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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