Matthew Danger Lippman wanted to be famous as far back as he can remember. By around fifth grade, he’d zeroed in on what he wanted to be famous for: music. And by ninth grade, he’d formed a band: the Brimstone Blondes. Their first concert was the annual talent show at their high school in Buffalo, New York—and it was a hit.

“We were the only people playing our own music in that way,” said Lippman, the band's frontman and songwriter. “And it was just like, ‘Whoa, that was your song?’ … And I think it just set us up for this cocky attitude very quickly of, like, ‘Are we the only band that matters?’ … And from there we were talking about the Grammys we were gonna get.”

That confidence only seemed to grow as the Brimstone Blondes quickly rose through Buffalo's local music scene. Still in high school, they won music competitions, booked gigs at bar venues across the city, and earned a wave of local press attention.

“I mean, we were clearly like the best band in the world,” Lippman said.

But then, they hit their first big hurdle on the staircase to stardom. In 2014, they were competing in the Eden Corn Festival Battle of the Bands. They sized up the competition.

“We're like, ‘Yeah, we've got this in the bag,’ said Alex Mersinger, the band’s bassist.

Which was good, because they needed the cash prize to finish recording and mastering their first full-length album. They were sure this album would launch them out of the Buffalo music scene and onto the national stage.

But then, about a minute into their set, the sky opened up, and it started pouring. They were rushed off the stage and didn’t take home any prize money.

“We were pranked by Lake Erie,” Lippman recalled.

“ It was a turning point in the band when we realized that our path towards rock and roll stardom was gonna be a lot harder than we initially thought,” said Jacob Cohen, the band's violinist and second guitarist.

The story of what happens when a teenage dream eventually collides with reality.

Credits:
Producer: Lyric Bowditch
Host: Dan Wanschura
Editing: Morgan Springer
Additional Editing: Ellie Katz and Dan Wanschura
Music: The Brimstone Blondes and Matthew Danger Lippman

Transcript:
DAN WANSCHURA, HOST:  This is Points North, a podcast about the land, water, and inhabitants of the Great Lakes. I’m Dan Wanschura.

Today’s story is about a guy from Buffalo, NY.

MATTHEW DANGER LIPPMAN: I'm Matthew Danger Lippman.

WANSCHURA: And, it’s about this dream of his that goes as far back as he can remember.

LIPPMAN: I think I wanted to be famous when I was like three years old.

ARCHIVAL HOME VIDEO: “You’ve got a friend in me. Hey, get the camera on me! You’ve got a friend in me. Get a picture of us!”

LIPPMAN: I'm not totally sure where the idea even came to my mind.

WANSCHURA: A lot of kids dream of being famous, right? But for Matthew Danger Lippman, it wasn’t a passing phase. Around fifth grade, he found the thing he wanted to be famous for: music. He started taking guitar lessons. He got really into Gorillaz, and then their musical influences, like Beck and David Bowie.

LIPPMAN: What I loved about David Bowie is that he had this persona, you know? … He was both himself and not himself, and I think I got really into the idea of kind of playing a character through your art. And so … in eighth grade I changed my middle name to Danger. 

WANSCHURA: Not legally, but he wrote it on his middle school graduation diploma.

LIPPMAN: The gym teacher who was, who was hosting this … saw it and was like, “Does he really wanna be known as Matthew Danger Lippman his whole life? No one's gonna take him seriously.” … And then … everybody was like, “What's up, Danger?” … And so that stuck and stuck my whole life.

WANSCHURA: This is also around the same time that Matt started writing his own music.

LIPPMAN: I don't know. It came fairly intuitively. … I remember being in my room and playing … the same like Clash and Nirvana songs and David Bowie songs very loudly, and then at a certain point realizing that all it really takes is you just play some chords, and you write something over it, and all of a sudden you have a song.

(Music: “My Neighbor Looks Like Christian Bale” by Brimstone Blondes)

LIPPMAN: I was already very used to being, like, a class clown. … And it was very kind of preconscious of me to be, like, running around and drawing attention to myself. And I think the songs became, you know, a useful vehicle for doing that in a way that wasn't just completely embarrassing myself. Or ideally not embarrassing myself.   

WANSCHURA: So, by the time he was going into high school, Matt could play guitar. He could write his own music. But because he wanted to be famous—to be a star—he knew he needed a band. And how does a fifteen year old in Buffalo start a band? Producer Lyric Bowditch takes it from here.

LYRIC BOWDITCH, BYLINE: As luck would have it, Matthew Danger Lippman wasn’t the only guy in 9th grade looking to start a band. Two of his classmates, Alex and Joe, had learned to play bass and drums during middle school.

LIPPMAN: They wanted to start a band, and I was maybe the only person in our class who was, you know, calling myself, like, a musician at that point. … And so then we kind of joined forces, and then started our band. 

(Music: “The State of Things” by Brimstone Blondes)

BOWDITCH: They started jamming together in 2010. They were freshmen in high school. It was Alex on the bass, Joe on the drums, Matt on the guitar and vocals.

LIPPMAN: We would hang out in Alex's garage, like a true garage rock band, I think after school maybe two, three times a week. … And he'd just moved to the suburbs, so we really had a lot of space to really bash it out. And then sometimes people would come by from the neighborhood and just watch us play, and we'd open up the garage door.

BOWDITCH: And like any great band, they were a cast of characters.

LIPPMAN: Alex, our bassist, was the rock of the band. He was always sober. … He drove us everywhere 'cause he got a driver's license at 16. … Joe … he was always unpredictable and a little bit flippant. … But he was also like a bit of a polymath and could play piano and … learned how to do harmonies before any of us did. … Then I was just the high school … egomaniac who was putting on lipstick and jumping around. … And bringing them the songs. 

BOWDITCH: Matt was the frontman and songwriter from day one. It was never a question. It was just obvious to the rest of the band that that’s who he was. Matt also was the one to come up with their band name.

LIPPMAN:  I remember I made a list of, like, 40 band names and I went around the school and … I think I liked the idea of … something alliterative … something a little bit androgynous.

BOWDITCH: They called themselves the Brimstone Blondes. And about a year after they started jamming together, the Brimstone Blondes made their big debut.

(Archival sound of the talent show)

BOWDITCH: It was a Friday night in April 2011. A crowd of teens and parents were packed into the auditorium of City Honors School for one of the biggest events of the year: the annual high school talent show.

(Archival of Matt introducing the band)

LIPPMAN: We were only supposed to play one song, and we had signed up with the Kanye song … “Runaway” from Dark Twisted Fantasy … and then at some point we started being like, "You know what? We're gonna play our own material." 

BOWDITCH: So the Blondes opened with their first original song.

(Archival music of “It’s Getting Harder” by Brimstone Blondes) 

BOWDITCH: And then, before anyone had the chance to applaud, they transitioned right into “Runaway” by Kanye West.

(Archival of the Brimstone Blondes playing “Runaway” by Kanye West)

BOWDITCH: What was supposed to be a one-song set ended up being nearly 10 minutes. And it was a hit.

LIPPMAN:  We were the only people playing our own music in that way … And it was just like, "Whoa, that was your song?" And it was like, "Yeah, that was our song." And I think it just set us up for this cocky attitude very quickly of, like, “Are we the only band that matters, you know?” … And from there we were talking about the Grammys we were gonna get. 

BOWDITCH: But there were a few steps between playing the high school talent show and winning their Grammy. The Brimstone Blondes needed advice. And Matt knew just the person to ask.

LIPPMAN: One of my favorite substitute teachers was childhood best friends with Rick James and his brother.

BOWDITCH: Rick James is a funk and R&B icon. His hit song "Super Freak" became one of the defining songs of the ‘80s. And, yes, he did win a Grammy.

LIPPMAN: At some point early on, he figured out that I was a big music fan. … He would always tell me about seeing his friend go from just, like, a local Buffalo guy to a superstar musician. And so I would go to him for advice on that. … He was very willing to cater to my high school delusions in a way I really appreciate. … He encouraged us to record our music, and he was like, “And then you have to go out there, you gotta get it on the radio. You know, that's what Rick did, and he just toured everywhere.” … I was like, “Well, this is the kind of access to the inner circle I need,” you know? 

BOWDITCH: But before all of that, step one on their staircase to stardom?

LIPPMAN: Play all the time, like Rick James did. Play shows, go out there.

BOWDITCH: So, the Brimstone Blondes started playing as many shows as they could.

LIPPMAN, ARCHIVAL CLIP: Hello, family members, festival workers, and other early risers. My name is Matthew Danger Lippman. The lovely lady to my left is named Olivia Hastings. 

BOWDITCH: Olivia was Matt’s girlfriend. She joined on guitar and backup vocals a few months after the talent show debut.

LIPPMAN, ARCHIVAL CLIP: This guy to my right is named Alex Mersinger. And this one in back is named Joseph Barth. And together, we’re Brimstone Blondes. … I can't sing, and they can't play, so let's go. One, two, three, four. Get yourself together. Get yourself together. Can't you see? Get yourself protected. Get yourself together for me.

(Music: “Get Yourself Together” by Brimstone Blondes)

LIPPMAN: Our first couple years was really just us playing to audiences that were indifferent if not actively hostile to us, which we loved. I mean, every time we had so much fun. … From the beginning it was kind of our idea that we were punks, you know?

BOWDITCH: They also played shows at this indoor skate park slash teen venue called Xtreme Wheels, where the sound system was terrible and bands had to pay to play if they didn't sell enough tickets. But the Brimstone Blondes kept at it. Because they knew that step one in the staircase to stardom—playing shows—was the only way they’d get to step two: Becoming known and respected in the Buffalo music scene.

(Music: “Ghost Girl” by Brimstone Blondes)

JACOB COHEN: The Brimstone Blondes, we were straight out of Buffalo.

BOWDITCH: That’s Jacob Cohen. He joined the Brimstone Blondes as violinist and second guitarist about a year after Olivia. Like the others, he’s a native Buffalonian.

COHEN: It's a beautiful city. It's these tree-lined parkways and these old Victorian homes. The great Lake Erie, and the mighty Niagara River. You know, growing up there, … Lake Erie feels so, so massive, as important as the Atlantic Ocean.

BOWDITCH: The Erie Canal connected the Great Lakes to New York Harbor. When it opened in 1825, it turned Buffalo into one of the most important industrial cities in America.

COHEN: There's a real pride to the place. … Buffalonians have this implicit belief that their city matters, and the Brimstone Blondes really felt that. 

LIPPMAN: It is like the nexus of a certain, like, rust belt artistic scene. … I think there's something about Buffalo's complete remoteness from New York City, you know, the older brother, that breeds this kind of innately counter-cultural, you know, “It's me, it's not them” feeling. … This kind of slightly ironic, but also I think deep down very sincere feeling of like, “I will not be forgotten,” you know?

COHEN: There's a great legacy of art in Buffalo, you know, bands like the Goo Goo Dolls, like 10,000 Maniacs, Rick James. And so even when we were kids, those were our role models. That's what we knew, you know, could happen for a band starting out in Buffalo. … We thought it was very linear. … We thought that if we could make a name for ourselves in the Buffalo music scene, that, you know, the world would be listening.

BOWDITCH: And in the summer of 2012, their persistence finally paid off. They entered Buffalo’s annual “Music is Art” competition, which was founded and is still run by another Buffalo legend, Goo Goo Dolls bassist Robby Takac.

(Archival music of the 2012 Music Is Art Festival) 

BOWDITCH: The Brimstone Blondes won the judges’ prize and earned a spot performing at the Music is Art Festival that September. That's what you're hearing now. And in doing so, they got something even more valuable: the attention and respect of Buffalo's grown-up music scene.

(Archival music from Broadway Joe’s show)

LIPPMAN: We started getting picked up by some of the college age and 20-something hipsters of Buffalo. ... And so then that's when we started getting snuck into bars like DBGB's and Nietzsche's. … I think they just like, they loved the novelty of having these high school punks come through.

BOWDITCH: This is the Brimstone Blondes, age 16, playing at a dive bar venue called Broadway Joe's. Step two in the staircase to stardom? Check. And before they knew it, they found themselves on step three: Getting media attention. The Brimstone Blondes were invited onto a local radio show.

MICHAEL MORETTI, RADIO: 91.3 FM WBNY, Buffalo's original alternative since 1982. You're tuned into The Local Show every Thursday from 7:00 to 10:00 PM. I'm your host, Mike, in the studio right now with Brimstone Blondes. Mm.  

BOWDITCH: This was October 2012.

MORETTI, RADIO: You guys are pretty young. How old are you guys? 

BAND, RADIO: We are all 17.

MORETTI, RADIO: Really? Are you still in high school?

BAND, RADIO: Yes. Seniors.

MORETTI, RADIO: Are you serious? Oh, wow.

BAND, RADIO: All seniors at City Honors. …

MORETTI, RADIO: You guys are actually one of the—correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re one of BuffaBlog's must watch— 

BAND, RADIO: We were. Yeah, we were one of the— Yes. One of the top five- top five acts to see. 

BOWDITCH: Listening to this now feels like opening a time capsule.

LIPPMAN, RADIO: I feel like, you know, young teenage bands that play any sort of covers immediately get written o- (voice breaks). Son of a- immediately get written off. 

BOWDITCH: You can hear a total seriousness from the band, alongside their silliness. Matt tells me that at that time, the Brimstone Blondes hadn’t recorded anything in a studio, but already had four albums planned out.

LIPPMAN: So it was “AGE OF CONSENT” … and then “Cougars,” which was a concept album about our barely legal coming of age as a band. … And then there was one that was gonna be called “Sexy Magic Brilliant,” which was when “Cougars” went really big and we, I don't know, became alcoholics or like spun out or something. Then we'd have to make “Sexy Magic Brilliant,” which was the downfall of the band, like crazy drug damaged album.

BAND, RADIO: You just really wanna get older, you know? You're always planning our 10th album. It's true. Haven't even recorded the first one. …  Just jump straight to the fourth. … We'll do it like “Star Wars.” “Sexy Magic Brilliant.” Oh, yeah. …

MORETTI, RADIO: “Sexy Magic Brilliance”?

BAND, RADIO: Yes.

MORETTI, RADIO: That sounds like a good album title. 

BAND, RADIO: Doesn't it?

COHEN: We were really mythologizing ourselves in real time. … We got an amazing amount of coverage in Western New York by being the teen band of Western New York, and I think that did nothing but really stoke our egos and what we thought this was meant to be. We have an early song called “Reunion Tour.” It's about the band breaking up when we're 20 years old and then coming back when we're 23 for this just epic blockbuster reunion. 

(Music: “Reunion Tour” by Brimstone Blondes) 

BOWDITCH: Three months after that radio interview, in January 2013, the Brimstone Blondes released their first EP. It was called “When We Were Blonde.” And “Reunion Tour” was the opening track. The EP brought more shows, and a lot more press. Convinced they were on the verge of greatness, the guys decided to kick Olivia out of the band because her heart just wasn't in it.

After they graduated from City Honors School, the Brimstone Blondes were riding high. Matt, Alex, and Jacob went to different colleges, and Joe stayed back in Buffalo. But there was never a question about whether or not the band would stick together. They all reunited in Buffalo for a few shows during that school year … and they had big plans for the following summer. They would finally tackle the next step on the staircase to stardom…

LIPPMAN: We had to record a full album … 'cause the real bands have albums that tell stories.

BOWDITCH: A full-length album is how real bands break out from their local scene onto the national stage, just like the Goo Goo Dolls and Rick James. The trajectory was clear to Matt. After the full-length album would come the tour, the critical acclaim, and pretty soon, world domination.

LIPPMAN: We believed it was our duty to … retain our sense of humor, mess with the world, and go and win Grammys, and then instead of make a speech, drop our Grammys on the floor. … I think we did have some of that delusion because our first couple times we won all the talent shows. … It was gonna have to keep happening that way, right? 

BOWDITCH: They actually didn’t win that first talent show, but moving on…

LIPPMAN: I mean, we were clearly like the best band in the world.

BOWDITCH: So when the summer of 2014 came around, the Brimstone Blondes started recording their first album: “AGE OF CONSENT.” But they’d miscalculated how long it would take, and how much it would cost. After recording just seven songs for the album, they ran out of cash to keep booking the studio. The summer was nearly spent. There wasn’t time for them to find new jobs and save up money before heading back to school. But then, the perfect opportunity presented itself.

LIPPMAN: Alex had seen a flyer of some kind seeing that there was a cash prize at the Eden Corn Festival for a Battle of the Bands.

BOWDITCH: The cash prize was 500 bucks: enough to pay for another night in the studio, and mastering.

LIPPMAN: And I was like, "Well, this is how we make our album."

BOWDITCH: So, the 2014 Eden Corn Festival Battle of the Bands became a lifeline for the Brimstone Blondes.

LIPPMAN: I mean, we always win these things.

BOWDITCH: That's after the break.

(Sponsorship break)

BOWDITCH: The Eden Corn Festival is held every year on the first weekend of August. It's a four-day affair in the small town of Eden, New York — just over five miles from Lake Erie. The festival features events like cornhole tournaments, corn husking contests (with not one, not two, not three, but four age groups!). And in 2014, a Battle of the Bands with a fat cash prize. The Brimstone Blondes didn't have a shred of doubt that they would win it. As Matthew Danger Lippman recalls…

LIPPMAN: We felt almost we were being unfair, like that we were ringers. … Like we were scamming. We were like, “Well, we're clearly going to win. … This is mean to do.” 

BOWDITCH: Here’s Alex Mersinger, the bassist:

ALEX MERSINGER: We stayed and listened to a bit of the first band, decided that we thought they sucked. And we're like, “Yeah, we've got this in the bag.”

LIPPMAN: If you're listening and you played the Eating Corn Festival, I'm sure you were great, you know. … I was, like, a little stinker at the time. … I remember them just playing covers, which we just felt like it put them in a different strata from what we were doing.

(Music: “Get Lifted!” by the Brimstone Blondes)

MERSINGER: Okay, we're, we're up next. … So we get up there, and I remember making eye contact with each other like, "We got this. This is, like, we're sounding really good." … But I wanna say a minute into our first song, … rain just, like, opens up. Just pouring, like, all over and, like, thunder. It gets, like, dark, … wind starts picking up. … Like, it felt so immediate.  

LIPPMAN: The sound guy started freaking out that if we didn't get off the stage, we were all gonna be electrocuted.

MERSINGER: He's like, "You gotta get off. You gotta get off." … And like, rain's coming in on all of our equipment.

LIPPMAN: We had to, like, grab our amps and, and take our shirts off and throw them over the amps and, like, sprint to our car. 

MERSINGER: We drove straight out of there, and we're like,  "Well, I guess that money's gone."    

LIPPMAN: We were pranked by Lake Erie.

LIPPMAN: We kinda deserved it in a way. … We were a little bit too, too cocky. 

MERSINGER: We were just cosmically punished for this. … Immediately “No, you can't have it.”

BOWDITCH: It was them at their lowest point. In a text to Jacob the next day, Matt wrote: "9/11, Pearl Harbor, the Rwandan Genocide, Brimstone Blondes at the Eden Corn Festival."

COHEN:  It was a turning point in the band when we realized that our path towards rock and roll stardom was gonna be a lot harder than we initially thought.

LIPPMAN: The idea had never occurred to me before.

BOWDITCH: The Brimstone Blondes didn’t take home any prize money. That meant they couldn't afford to record more songs for their album “AGE OF CONSENT,” or even master the songs they had recorded. So they released a 28-minute, unmastered album—really something between a full-length album and an EP. Matt wasn’t happy with it. Here’s the first song on “AGE OF CONSENT” called “The Photographer”:

(Music: “The Photographer” by Brimstone Blondes)

LIPPMAN: We put it out August 22, 2014, I think. And we played our release show.

BOWDITCH: “AGE OF CONSENT” was put out by a local Buffalo label, which printed some cassette tapes for the album, and helped them get a bit of college radio play. But then there was another hurdle. Matt was transferring colleges going into sophomore year—from a school just a few hours outside Buffalo… to SUNY Purchase, a 6-hour drive from Buffalo on a good day.

LIPPMAN: And basically … from that point onward, everything we did was difficult, and it required a lot of coordination that more often than not failed.

LIPPMAN: I was convinced that we had to really maintain our momentum. … And so I would just plan, if ever anybody messaged me on Facebook and was like, "Hey, you wanna come to Ohio?" I'm like, "We'll be there." And I'd message the guys and it's like, "Hey, in three weeks we need to figure out how we all get to Canton, Ohio." … Alex would always have our back. Uh, poor Alex. … He would drive overnight. He would drive 20 hours to a show, and then we'd get to the show, and there was 14 people there. But we were so, so deeply committed to it that playing to 14 people in, you know, Allentown, Pennsylvania or something was worth a day of driving for Alex.

BOWDITCH: At first, the chaos was kind of fun. They may have missed the Eden Corn Festival prize money and released an unfinished album, but screw it. They were pushing forward with the next step in the Rick James-inspired staircase to stardom: playing shows outside Buffalo… Here's Alex.

MERSINGER: There are, like, a bunch of my favorite memories. Right, like … the tours that we did, you know, sleeping in the … musty basement of a, like, a punk house that had, like, a sawed in half couch.

COHEN: We fell into this whole community of really kinda Midwest Great Lakes rock bands from the region. … It was a touring circuit, almost. We would go east towards the Finger Lakes and then, you know, west across Lake Erie to, you know, Pennsylvania and Ohio. …  And we would just lose so much money. I mean, whatever we made the night before, we would pay that and then some for gas and for breakfast the next day.

LIPPMAN: It was built on sheer drive and ambition, … and there was a little bit of, like, the long distance relationship thing of, "but we're still in love. I mean, we're still gonna be hugely famous."

(Music: “(Kiss Me) I can see the lights over Johnson City tonight...” by Matthew Danger Lippman)

LIPPMAN: But I think that the idea started to become maybe a little bit more and more remote.

BOWDITCH: Chaos rarely stays fun for long. Within a few months of the new school year, the logistical headaches and misadventures began to take their toll. More cracks were forming. And distance wasn't the only thing pulling the Brimstone Blondes apart. In the music scene at SUNY Purchase, just outside New York City, Matt felt closer than ever to the thing he'd been chasing since childhood, while the band seemed to be getting farther away from it. It was getting harder to keep the flame alive.

LIPPMAN: Similar to how a long distance relationship, you know, if you're not feeling fulfilled, you can cheat or something. I think I started to realize that was gonna be hard to have a band where we all were 300 miles away from each other … Which is why I started booking more and more shows and being like, "Well, let's see if we can all make it."

COHEN: All of the chaos, the logistics, the misadventures, it makes sense when we feel like it's building up to a narrative of success, but after a while, we start to ask ourselves, "Shouldn't we be in class right now? You know, what are we really doing this for?"

BOWDITCH: Jacob was majoring in government. Alex was pursuing what might be the least punk-rock degree imaginable: actuarial science and economics.

MERSINGER: It got to a point where … you could see Matt wanted to do the grind. Right? … I saw it and, I was like, "I can't do that. … I can't relocate to New York and live on, like, nothing and work some other job on the side so that I have the flexibility to play the shows." … That's where it stops being, like, the dream, and it becomes, like, work. And I'm like, … "I am spending all this money to get this degree. … This isn't gonna be my career," especially if it didn't catch already.

LIPPMAN: I was reckoning with at that point … the feeling that my, like, can-do optimism was not totally taking into account everybody else's realities. … Like "we can be there," like, also involved Alex driving for 15 hours or so. And the realization that pushing and saying, “Yes,” all the time would result in not so great outcomes.

BOWDITCH: Finally, after a string of disasters, Alex hit his breaking point. This was May 2015. Matt booked their first-ever show in New York City, and he messaged the Blondes about it in their Facebook group chat…

(Music: “Afterparty” by Brimstone Blondes)

BOWDITCH: Here’s Alex, today, reading from his response.

MERSINGER, FB MESSAGE: "I've been thinking about this for a while now, and my heart is racing as I type this, but (as horrible and selfish [as the] timing is) I feel like I legitimately have to quit the band. I don't know if this is just a combination of stress from school and panic about the impending future, maybe I'll change my mind and come around, but, either way, I don't want to feed you guys bullshit. 

BOWDITCH: Joe Morgan's messages have a more dramatic flare…

JOSEPH MORGAN, FB MESSAGE: "I think it's like beating a dead horse in the hopes that the shocking pain is keeping it alive but not killing it. … I almost just want to say: let it die. And then the other part of me starts to tear up at the thought of it all being over. ... Unfortunately, unless everyone is satisfied remaining a stagnant high school band that's almost good most of the time but will never actually make it (whatever that means), then I think we're completely fucked. ... It's just the way I see how things are right now. Shitty. And further down the tunnel? Shit as far as the eye can see." 

BOWDITCH: Some of Joe's messages also get a bit personal…

MORGAN, FB MESSAGE: "Now if you're asking why I never say anything, Matt, it's because you can be a complete fucking prick, and I pretty much loathe being in your presence the majority of the time now."

LIPPMAN, FB MESSAGE: “Well, that’s a shame, Joe.” 

BOWDITCH: Matt replies.

LIPPMAN, FB MESSAGE: “I think you’re a great musician stifled by an insane defeatist streak.” 

BOWDITCH: His message goes on a bit, but it ends with:

LIPPMAN, FB MESSAGE: "R.I.P. (this incarnation of) Brimstone Blondes. You're all welcome back if you find yourselves with more time/interest. But for now, this is me."

BOWDITCH: And with that, the five-year story of the Brimstone Blondes of Buffalo, New York ended.

BOWDITCH: But as Matt's messages suggest, he wasn't done. With some of his new music friends from SUNY Purchase backing him, he played that first-ever show in New York City.

(Archival recording of the Brimstone Blondes at The Bitter End in New York City)

BOWDITCH: And the name of the venue — I swear, you can't make this stuff up — was The Bitter End.

LIPPMAN, ARCHIVAL: I want to say a couple words about this current Brimstone Blondes lineup, folks.

BOWDITCH: This is a recording from that show.

LIPPMAN, ARCHIVAL: As a matter of fact, the real Brimstone Blondes quit exactly one week ago, minus me. So, you know, I expected a round of applause there, but you know what? I'm not asking for one. I'm not fucking asking for one. Anyway, you ready, new Blondies? Yeah, baby.

LIPPMAN: What I feel worst about in this world is that I kept the Brimstone Blondes name for maybe like eight months or so after. … It's so silly, but I felt  a little bit, like, betrayed or something at first, even though I'd, uh, you know, … these guys had put up with so much to be in Brimstone Blondes. … And I felt like I'd built up the name, which is so funny. It was, like, a couple plays in Texas college radio and a couple blog spots, and I'm like, "But the world needs Brimstone Blondes," you know? And then at a certain point I realized it was just so tied to, you know, the version of me that was back in Buffalo playing with these guys. … That was always their band. … So Brimstone Blondes was ceased as an operation, and then I just started going by my own name, which is what I do still.

(Music: “The Craft” by Matthew Danger Lippman)

BOWDITCH: Did the breakup of the band impact those friendships, do you think? 

LIPPMAN: Yeah, for sure. … It's, like, so weird, but the breakup of a band is really, really heavy, and it does feel so much more like a relationship breakup than anyone would ever guess.

MERSINGER: I regret quitting it when I did. I would've liked to stick it out through college … and then we had, like, an actual conversation about, like, what is the band, and what are we doing, and like what do we want? And, like, maybe broken it up on better terms. Because I think it's something that impacts me and Matt's friendship to, like, this day. 

BOWDITCH: Eight years after the band broke up, Alex invited Matt to his wedding.

MERSINGER: It was very strange. I, like, sent stuff to him, I texted him, I DM'd him on Twitter and like Instagram, and like, he just kind of stonewalled me. 

BOWDITCH: Matt… didn’t come.

MERSINGER: But then I built his website for him. So there's that.

BOWDITCH: Of course, I had to ask Matt about this.

BOWDITCH: Was the breakup of the band any part of the reason that you didn't go to Alex's wedding? 

LIPPMAN: For sure. … And It's embarrassing to admit, but I remember reading that David Bowie had skipped Mick Ronson, his guitar player from the Ziggy Stardust era's wedding. … And I think I, like, developed this idea that once something is over, you, like, shouldn't look back on it. And that is something that I have really kind of like changed my tune on.

LIPPMAN: The songs I write now, … they do have a sense of nostalgia, and I'm starting to realize that there's so much to be gained from looking back and reflecting on who you were and keeping in touch with people.

BOWDITCH: Matt didn’t even have Joe’s number when they first reconnected for this story. But Joe still thinks about the Blondes.

MORGAN: Sometimes I fantasize about what if we had just said screw it, and like, all just moved to New York City or whatever, really just kept trying to keep the band going. … Some of the songs Matt writes are just, you know, they’re so good. … It's like we should have buckled down. We could have made it.

BOWDITCH: One of the most unexpected—and coolest—things about working on this project about the Brimstone Blondes was realizing that the project itself has become part of their story … a postscript, or maybe even the beginning of a new chapter.

(Music: “Do U Wanna Make-Out??” by the Brimstone Blondes)

LIPPMAN: It's funny, when the idea of this story first came up, and I messaged them, I was like, "These guys probably don't wanna talk about this stuff." And they were so ready, and … Alex pulled out all the memorabilia. 

MERSINGER:  Any time I have, like, a chance to talk about, like, the tours that we did  … and, like, just bizarre things that happened, the weird people we met, they're so fun to tell. And I'm just like, “I can't talk about this all the time,” but I love talking about it. I love remembering the band.  

LIPPMAN: And I was like, "Wow, cool. This did mean something to them too." … And that was really validating to experience, because similar to a breakup, if you don't talk to somebody for a while, you're like, "Well, did that even mean anything?" … They were so essential to my development as an artist. And I love all the memories, good and bad.

BOWDITCH: Matt and Jacob both now live in New York City. The two of them have stayed close. And like Matt, Jacob still works in music, but in a different way.

COHEN: I've had a career in classical music. … I don't play in any punk bands anymore, but the Blondes, it sticks with me in my approach to art—that if you have a vision to just go with it, even be a little reckless, take the punches. If it doesn't make sense in the moment, looking back, the narrative will come together. … The Brimstone Blondes early records, that was intentional, inspired music. We had a vision, we had something that we needed to say, and we needed people to hear it.

BOWDITCH: Alex and Joe still live in the Buffalo area. Alex is a Business Systems Analyst at a big bank, and Joe works in industrial beverage packaging. Their music careers ended when the Brimstone Blondes did, but they do still have it in them.

MERSINGER: I'll listen to the album every once in a while and, like, see if I can still remember how to play the songs. Like I still do.

BOWDITCH: And as for whether Joe still plays music?

MORGAN:  Uh, I do just in my room.

BOWDITCH: So, there was just one thing I couldn't stop wondering…

BOWDITCH: Have you played together since the official breakup, like when you guys are all back in Buffalo? 

LIPPMAN: Not once.

(Music: “Reunion Tour” by the Brimstone Blondes)

BOWDITCH: Could there ever be a reunion tour, do you think?

LIPPMAN: Listen, it sounds like the guys are down.

MERSINGER:  I made a joke when he reached out to us, you know, about this, and I was like, "Oh my God, we're almost time for a reunion tour to be off by like 10 years." Like, you know, like return at, at 33. Let's do it.

LIPPMAN: This is definitely like opening back up the thing. We haven't, we haven't all spoken so much in 10 years. … We always have had the idea … of like, I think it could happen. We wrote about it in the song. We're gonna have to reunite at some point, you know? If that's next year or if that's even 10 years down the line, who knows? But I do think we all have to play at least one Big Buffalo show.

(Music: “Modesto Baby” by Matthew Danger Lippman)

WANSCHURA: Currently, Matt is on tour as a guitarist for the band of Montreal — a band he’s been a huge fan of since the days of the Blondes and that 2012 radio interview.

BAND, RADIO: Oh, Daft Punk is awesome. I've been listening to them and “of Montreal” quite a bit lately. 

MORETTI, RADIO: of Montreal, definitely.

BOWDITCH: Have you ever, slash do you now, feel like you've made it?

LIPPMAN: I feel like I'm making it, you know? It's not the, like, manic, frenzied, fragile feeling that I had when I was younger of like, … "But this next show will literally be the thing." For me, at this point, I'm 30, and it's more … about having a coalition of artists that you really admire and really dedicating yourself to the art … and trying to be as good as possible. … And I do have that at this point in my life. … And listen, if I do win a Grammy at any point, I'll probably still drop it.